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In: Male Control (training), Mrs Lion Comments

The other day Lion wrote a post about anal play. He said he thought I liked anal sex too. As a matter of fact, our first sexual encounter was anal sex. I think the next one was too. Once Lion introduced BDSM the anal sex, for me, tapered off. When we got together, I’d spank him or tie up his balls or similar things, then I’d ride him for my own orgasm and either a hand job or blow job for him. I can’t exactly say I miss the anal sex. What I do miss is Lion’s ability to do anything but have sex on his back.

Unfortunately, and without meaning to, apparently I conditioned him to be unable to be on top. It’s true that I’ve usually had better/more orgasms while I’m on top, but variety is the spice of life. Many years ago, I liked the occasional pounding without expectation of having an orgasm. It felt good even if it didn’t feel good enough, if that makes any sense. Maybe that’s one of the reasons I like reverse cowgirl. I know it probably won’t produce an orgasm, and I’m not really looking for one, but it feels good and I love having Lion come inside me.

I am absolutely not saying Lion’s conditioning is the reason I don’t want sex. His post just reminded me that we used to have anal sex sometimes and that led to thinking about his conditioning. I still have no idea why I don’t want sex. Ironically, this morning Lion asked if I thought his licking me would make me feel better. Better than what, I don’t know. I don’t necessarily see licking as a potential cure for anything other than horniness, but we can do it. I have no doubt it will feel good. I just worry about hurting his shoulder, which was diagnosed this morning as a torn rotator cuff.

Before he suggested licking me, I told him I could make him feel better with a blow job. The diagnosis is pretty depressing and I owe him a blow job to get my average up anyway. Not that I wouldn’t give him one just for the heck of it. I know he loves a good blow job. He may even like a bad blow job although I’d never give him one on purpose. At the very least, he’ll get his blow job tonight. Anything else is frosting on the cake.

[Lion — I completely forgot that our first encounters were anal. I don’t know why they were. I’ll have to ask Mrs. Lion.]

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In: Lion's Journal, Female led relationship with discipline, Punishment, Sex

Mrs. Lion and I have been having a dialogue about a couple of things that concern us. The first is that when Mrs. Lion reads a blog written about enforced male chastity or domestic discipline, she notices that the keyholder or disciplinary partner enjoy what they do. For example, Julie of strictJuliespanks.blogspot.com writes about being turned on when she beats her husband. Mrs. Lion not only isn’t turned on, but she doesn’t particularly like beating me. She does it and does it very well because it’s something that is part of our relationship and something I need. She says that she gets a feeling of inadequacy that she can’t get pleasure for herself out of doing this.

I think that many bloggers tend to exaggerate to some degree, since the male fantasies about disciplinary relationships almost always seem to include the idea that the woman enjoys her role and gets pleasure out of exercising her power over her male. I’m sure that some women enjoy spanking their husbands. I’m pretty sure that most of them are doing BDSM scenes and not domestic discipline. From what I can learn reading a bit more extensively than Mrs. Lion, the disciplinary wives don’t consider spanking their husbands as recreational or sexual. They do it as a way of helping their husbands change and become better. The only satisfaction for them is seeing how he improves thanks to their disciplinary attention.

Just because some disciplined husbands (like me) get aroused thinking about being punished, doesn’t mean that our partners share this sexual interest. If anything, the disciplinary wives use this sexual interest in spanking as a way to keep their husbands ready and willing to be punished as needed. I’ve never seen any disciplinary wife write that she enjoyed beating her husband.

In a relationship there are lots of things that appeal more to one partner than the other. This is absolutely the case in a disciplinary relationship. Our approach to getting this going is a bit unusual. The somewhat silly rules that earn me spankings were intentionally created by Mrs. Lion to give us lots of opportunities for her to punish me. This is almost a BDSM scenario. The point of it is to teach her to become very aware of my behavior and to consciously react to it with spankings.

The idea is that we get to practice observing offenses and then punishing them. Ultimately, we end up with Mrs. Lion observing more serious and meaningful offenses, like interrupting her or treating her in a way that makes her feel badly. Instead of internalizing and withdrawing when I do things like that, hopefully she will react the same way she does when I spill food on my shirt. At that point we have true domestic discipline.

The second area we have been discussing is the intensity of her spankings. Another reason we decided to punish trivial offenses is to essentially “tune up” her spanking. When we first started playing and Mrs. Lion spanked me, I could barely feel her hand on my bottom. Over a few years, she has learned to bruise my bottom without a second thought. Since we began our Female Led Relationship with Discipline (FLRD), she has been dialing up the severity of my spankings, at my request, by the way, so that they would be unmistakably disciplinary and not something I would get in a scene. Her concern is how we she will know when she has severe enough.

She’s commented that it concerns her that she might be unable to go far enough. In her post yesterday, she said that she would be unable to bring me to tears. I don’t think that’s necessary. I think that she’s quite close to the level of severity necessary to send a strong message. I also suspect that over time the severity will increase to avoid me getting “used to” her spanking intensity. I guess what I’m saying is that right now she’s at a point that will definitely work. Let’s say that this is the minimum lesson-teaching level of spanking. Let’s also say that I’m confident that if she wants to become more intense I am able to manage it. This gives her the latitude to decide how far she wants to go. The spanking I got on Monday night absolutely works to send the message to me. As I sit in my office, I can feel it even though I’m sitting on a nice, cushioned chair. I think that is where I was hoping she would go with her spanking.

I also think that the paddle she is using is the most effective tool I have felt. I believe she agrees. Even though there is a large collection of paddles in her arsenal, maybe sticking with this one for punishment makes sense. We can get another for the trailer if she agrees. I believe that just showing me that paddle will affect my behavior.

Mrs. Lion does not have to feel inferior to other dominant bloggers because she isn’t getting the requisite thrill out of beating me. I don’t believe that’s the point at all. Unfortunately, there really aren’t any bloggers I know of who write about the kind of experiences we are having. The people I read who practice domestic discipline never write about the actual spankings because they aren’t relevant to domestic discipline. It goes without saying, that those spankings are severe and their disciplined husbands fear them. There has never been any suggestion that the women enjoy doing this. There is always a sense that the men get some sexual feeling when they think about being punished. That’s why most of us disciplined husbands need “maintenance” spankings if too much time goes by between actual offenses. From what I’ve read, most of the wives are willing to do this. The maintenance spankings are always the same intensity as punishments. I am one of these men who need “maintenance” spankings if I haven’t earned one in a few weeks. Exactly how much time has to go by before one is needed I don’t know. I’ll leave timing in the hands of Mrs. Lion.

The Internet makes learning about practices like ours easier, but also allows a great deal of distortion by people writing about them. I think this causes Mrs. Lion some concern when she reads bloggers who claim to enjoy punishing their partners. If they do, it’s not really punishment; it’s a scene. If the husband enjoys the spanking, it’s probably a scene. However, if he gets aroused thinking about being spanked but hates getting one, there’s a good chance it’s an effective punishment.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with anticipating a punishment with arousal. It doesn’t take more than a minute or two for me to realize that what I was aroused about isn’t happening to me. It’s something else. Once it gets through my head that what’s happening isn’t for my entertainment, I am really unhappy I’m bent over the bed being beaten. I start regretting why I got myself into this predicament.

It helps if Mrs. Lion reminds me why I’m suffering. Frequently she doesn’t. When she does, I think about what I’ve done as I’m yelping in pain. This stuff isn’t simple. It’s complex and has deep implications within the relationship. In our marriage, FLRD is effective and improves the way we relate to one another. During the time that I was recovering from spinal surgery and everything was suspended, we both missed our disciplinary relationship. I don’t think we have to fully understand why it works. All I can say is that we both have learned that it is what we should do and if we stop we both miss it. The key word is “both”. Even though Mrs. Lion doesn’t get a thrill out of beating me, she gets some value that she misses if we stop. That’s why we keep on.

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In: Mrs Lion Comments

As you know, Lion and I read each other’s posts before they’re published. This allows us to proofread for each other and to address any discrepancies, for want of a better word. It also allows each of us to see what is on the other’s mind mind. I know I’ve sprung some things on Lion for the first time in a post. I think he’s done the same to me.

In this morning’s post, Lion didn’t really spring anything on me. I know he wants me to “teach him a lesson” when I punish him. I know he wants me to read other people’s blogs. I know he wants me to get things out of what I do for him. I think these are all reasonable requests. I’m just not sure I can do them.

As I’ve told him in the past, when I read other people’s blogs, they seem over-the-top and not something I’d want to do. I know some/most of them are embellished. I know it’s not possible that the entire neighborhood takes turns whomping a poor guy’s butt. (I’m exaggerating too.) Lion insists I shouldn’t take things verbatim and I try not to, but I’m not sure exactly what I’m supposed to get out of it.

This morning’s post, again, made me realize that I may never get to the point Lion wants me to get. What’s more, I’m not sure I want to. And, even if I did, how do I know when I get there? (These are rhetorical questions.) It seems to me, the bar keeps raising. I guess that’s not a bad thing in and of itself. Most people aren’t happy with whatever level they’ve attained in anything. There’s always another level. Once you beat the video game, you might be happy for a little while but then what?

What if beating the video game results in the picture in Lion’s post of the bright red/deep burgundy buns? What if I don’t want to go that far? What if I can’t handle Lion tears? I know he’s handling a lot of pain. If he can handle it, shouldn’t I be able to do it? I don’t have an answer. I’m not really looking for an answer. These are just questions swirling around in my mind right now.

I know our troll thinks I love beating the snot out of Lion. I know he thinks I’m sadistic. Not true. I do what Lion wants me to do. Maybe it’s what he needs me to do. And I’m fine with that. To a point. I just don’t think I’ll ever reach a level of wanting or needing to do it myself.

I’m not trying to minimize Lion’s need for punishment. I’m not trying to get out of doing it. I’ll do what I can for him. But I think reading the blogs makes me feel like Lion is on level 157 and I’m stuck on level 87 and everything above level 99 feels too…. I don’t know “too” what. It’s just “too…”.

[Lion — I don’t want Mrs. Lion to go to some ridiculous, impossible point. She’s right, I can handle quite a bit of pain. I’m in pain now because of my shoulder. I know that I’m a difficult subject for spanking. My years in the BDSM community have given me a good gauge of what I can or should take. I’m very difficult to mark and very difficult to give lasting reminders of a spanking. As a result, I “need” more severity than some might think reasonable. We are all different and the only way we can discover what we need and can handle is by turning up the volume until it gets to be too much. At that point, back off and stay where we were. It’s a moving target because for a while, at least, I will learn to tolerate Mrs. Lion’s intensity and will need more to make her point. That’s why communication is important. Right now she is delivering a very memorable spanking. I think it’s a little less intense than I need. I don’t expect my bottom to look like the one in my post. I just want her to understand that I am giving her honest feedback based on my experience and what I am feeling. I’m very grateful that she’s willing to do what she does. I’m hopeful that she will take this learning and use it to enforce teaching me not to do things that might upset her.]

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In: Punishment, Lion's Journal, Spanking
This is the image that Julie used to illustrate a thoroughly spanked bottom. I think it’s a little more color than Mrs. Lion will give me.

As Mrs. Lion wrote in her post yesterday, she’s dialed up the intensity of my spanking. For the record, I absolutely don’t enjoy it. She poses questions that deserve answers, but I’m not sure that I have them. We’re talking about a disciplinary situation. That’s what complicates things. If spanking me was part of the scene, it would be easy for me to suggest intensity and duration. The scene, after all, is for the benefit of the bottom as well as fun for the top. But we aren’t doing this for BDSM. This is intended to be punishment. Since neither of us has any experience with corporal punishment as children, we don’t have any guidelines as to what constitutes a disciplinary spanking.

I think it’s obvious that a punishment spanking has to hurt and not even resemble what would happen in a BDSM scene. That sounds good, but it doesn’t supply any concrete information. My go-to authority on spanking is Julie of Strict Julie Spanks. Here is what she says about intensity and duration of a spanking:

I personally like beating him until I see some bruising. Red is not even in question: he should be deep red. Beat him until you see him really sweating. If he is not stinky and sweating, you are not going hard enough. There should also be tears in his eyes. It’s not that he cries exactly, it’s more like the pain is just so great that the tears leak out on their own.

For a proper beating, keep at it for at least thirty minutes, something around 300 strokes or so should get the message across.

You need to get him past the first 100 or so, after that he numbs up a bit and can take the strokes easier, but that is where the strokes that will cause him the deeper, longer lasting soreness will be doled out, so don’t skimp on these if you would like to see him in discomfort for the rest of the day, and maybe well into the next, which is fun.

Julie is right in that when something gets seriously intense, there will be sweating and perhaps a change in smell of the person’s body. I’ve seen that many times when I’ve watched BDSM intense spanking. Julie’s husband sheds tears when a spanking has become extremely painful. Julie suggests that he’s not crying so much as having a physical reaction to the beating. I’ve never shed tears in any BDSM situation. I do think that her advice is good as to duration and intensity. The quote comes from a piece she wrote called “Beating Your Man Properly“.

The technique she writes about evolved over a long period of time spanking her husband. Like us, Julie and her husband don’t have long experience as children being spanked. If Julie’s description seems cruel or excessive, it’s important to understand that it really isn’t. Over time, she discovered what works for her husband. I believe that she’s absolutely right in terms of intensity and the signs that a spanking has been successfully completed. I think Mrs. Lion can apply this information.

In her piece, Julie talks about a very important stage in a spanking. After a while, the butt becomes a bit numb. You can judge when this happens when the male reacts less to swats of the same intensity that provoked loud protests earlier. At that point, he’s starting to get desensitized. This offers a very important opportunity, as Julie suggested. Now the swats can be significantly harder and faster. Trust me, he will feel them. However, the advantage of these later swats is that they produce longer-lasting pain. People who have a history of disciplinary spanking understand this almost intuitively. People like us have to learn and evolve.

Mrs. Lion and I have been evolving in terms of spanking for quite a while. I think she’ll agree that we’re at the point that she can get closer to what Julie suggests is a complete spanking. Don’t get me wrong, Mrs. Lion’s spankings are very painful. My Sunday night spanking left my bottom sore all day Monday. There are spots it really hurts to sit on. It is uncomfortable. The spanking wasn’t fun. Of course, that’s the whole idea.

It feels odd to me to be encouraging Mrs. Lion to push further when she punishes me. I hope that she will evolve on her own. I think that Julie gives a very realistic perspective on the signs that indicate the spanking is complete. I will point out that just because I am sweating and possibly shedding tears, doesn’t mean she has to stop. I know for a fact that Julie doesn’t.

The objective of a punishment spanking is to facilitate change. The problem that a disciplinary wife faces is that we adult males are relatively difficult to punish effectively. There is a lot of resistance and pride that have to be removed with a paddle. Just because I remain still and accept the punishment doesn’t mean the spanking has penetrated my pride and resistance.

I think that’s the key. If I can get through the punishment maintaining my dignity, it means that the spanking hadn’t reached a point where my control was truly gone. The sweating indicates physical stress. It’s a sign that the body is having trouble accepting what’s going on. It’s not risky to go past that point. The tears, if they come, are a sure sign that pride and dignity are gone. Without the tears it’s a little more difficult. I don’t know what to tell Mrs. Lion the signal is that she’s finally gotten past my pride and stripped me of that dignity. I guess she’ll know when she sees it. I think the trick is to keep pushing harder and harder. It’s really not up to me to decide when I’ve had enough. I’m the wrong person to look to. All I can say is that Julie’s advice is good. It’s definitely not aimed at beginners.

Our approach to disciplinary spanking is very different from many people practicing domestic discipline. Some, who come from a background of childhood spankings, don’t take an evolutionary view of punishment. The very first time the male needs a spanking it’s administered at full force in many cases drawing tears. You might say that that first spanking is at least as severe as the one Julie describes. My guess is that about half of the people who practice this started out at full force. I think that the reason those folks begin this practice is that the male has some behavioral problems serious enough to cause damage to himself or his family. I know that at least one guy asked to be punished to help them stop binge drinking. The very first spanking his wife delivered had him in tears. Even though it’s slower, our evolutionary approach will end up in exactly the same place.

Because up to now Mrs. Lion has been spanking me for relatively trivial offenses. That is, offenses that don’t damage us or cause her to feel badly, evolving spanking from a play level to a disciplinary level is a reasonable course of action. However, now that Mrs. Lion has resolved to punish me for things I do that hurt her, it’s more important to make the spanking a meaningful, disciplinary experience.

I’ve never been spanked that way. While I am punished, it isn’t a very serious event. After all, the rule I broke is almost always that I got food on my shirt. That doesn’t do much except cause us to spray some spot remover on it before we wash it. So it isn’t unreasonable that while the spanking is serious, Mrs. Lion isn’t. We both know that the current rules were designed to provide opportunities for punishment so that we could both learn how to be in a serious, disciplinary relationship.

After Sunday’s spanking, I think we are approaching a truly disciplinary punishment. I think there’s an attitude shift needed. Up until now, Mrs. Lion has been mostly concerned with my reaction to her spanking. Was it intense enough? How did I feel about it after was done? She’s been gauging her actions on my basically intellectual reactions. That makes sense in the current context. She considers that she’s doing the spanking for me instead of to me. After all, nobody gets very upset about getting food on a shirt.

If we are to advance to our goal of the truly disciplinary spanking, how I feel about it is no longer relevant. My intellectual reaction is absolutely beside the point. Instead of getting my feedback verbally, she can get it by the physical manifestations of my reaction. If she’s gone far enough, I will be angry about it. Anger is one of the stages of a spanking. It’s the last line of resistance before surrender. One reason we have been evolving in intensity is that without being restrained, I had to learn to control my emotional reactions.

Unrestrained, I want to roll over and get away. I’m pissed off that she’s hurting me. This is natural and instinctive. Using the evolutionary approach, I learned to be mostly still even though I’m unhappy with what’s happening. In over the knee spanking, the spanker often clamps the male’s legs between hers making it more difficult for him to squirm. The position over her lap is difficult to escape. This is sufficient in most cases.

I am bent over the bed with my weight on the bed and my legs dangling to the floor when I’m spanked. It’s relatively easy for me to move away. It’s not as easy as it was when I was flat on the bed. The over-the-side-of-the-bed position can be increased in security if the spanker straddles and sits on my back. This also gives her very good access for spanking. I don’t think Mrs. Lion wants to do this. I don’t know if it will become necessary, but it is possible since the next phase of my learning involves pushing me much harder. I don’t know how I will react. I guess we’ll find out in the near future.